Все серьезно, уважаемый Maleficus
Почитайте мнение Лаубштейна и Ван-Арсдэйла (2005):
Cliff Laubstein:
CFDL:
I was looking through Vcoins and I came upon 5 die matched solidi -
Marcian Victory Long Cross, RIC 510. I thought that this was a bit
strange, so I found two more on coin archives from CNG. Then I
looked further into Alan's book, Roman Coin Forgery and the two CNG
coins strongly resemble image #920. Look at the Reverse, The stray
tail on the "V" at 2:00 and the bump under the "O" at 6:30 kind of
cinch the reverse, but I am not completely sure. The obverse bothers
me a bit, but the image in the book is not the greatest quality and
there may be small differences. However, you can see how all the
coin reverses appear to be related. Look at the reverse ?die break?
off the "I" at 10:00 (I can not see this die break in Alan's book).
Any ideas?
CNG Triton VIII, lot 1283 $1,100
http://imagedb.coinarchives.com/img/cng … 681283.jpg
CNG Mail Bid 69, $869
http://imagedb.coinarchives.com/img/cng … 691793.jpg
Currently on Vcoins -
Pegasi $995
http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/pegasi/st … wItem.asp?
idProduct=2119&large=1
http://tinyurl.com/dtg4c
Roman Lode (3799) $550
http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/romanlode … wItem.asp?
idProduct=1839&large=1
http://tinyurl.com/a4ftg
Roman Lode (3800) $560
http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/romanlode … wItem.asp?
idProduct=2046&large=1
http://tinyurl.com/bf87y
Roman Lode (3802) $625
http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/romanlode … wItem.asp?
idProduct=1918&large=1
http://tinyurl.com/7zmha
Roman Lode (3814) $575
http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/romanlode … wItem.asp?
idProduct=2047&large=1
http://tinyurl.com/clf2o
Sincerely yours,
Cliff Laubstein
.........................................................................................................................
Alan VanArsdale
Re: ?7 Die Matched Marcian Victory Solidi? & #920
Hello Cliff / CFDL,
All the coins you show below Cliff, except the last one, are
in my opinion obviously modern. Not that they are poor quality
fakes, just in my opinion no better than many fake Roman gold coins
shown in the IBSCC BOC's as "Beruit School" fakes. I base this upon
visual examination of each photo, without any comparative analysis.
The last coin is on this basis, in my opinion suspect. With more
work as to it relationships to the other coins, I think it might
become more than suspect.
For more expensive modern die struck fakes now, there is a
common policy, especially in BUlgaria, to issue only five coins from
each die. These are then dispersed over great distance in time and
geography, by a sophisticated network of fake, stolen, and authentic
(illegally exported), coin distribution network under the control of
organised crime.
With the "Beruit" school, it is still common to issue large
numbers of coins from the same or closely related dies, or the same
molds. In many cases with fake coins shown in my book, with some
effort, I could find many other examples which were die linked, hub
linked, or mold linked in catalogues, books, and on the net. Of
course caution has to be used that you are not looking at the
authentic host for these fakes, or at a die link to the authentic
host (including ones recut by the Romans, or for the fakes, altered
in relationship to the Roman ones, which can for example give the
false appearance of hub links).
That forgery control has been degraded, in general, even among
many IBSCC member dealers, since 1999 (when the BOC staff was
disemployed and the bulletin ceased publication, in my opinion due
tot he BMF / Galvona Boys scandals adter a few years waiting period
so the true reason would not be obvious), is in my opinion obvious.
That is, in my opinion, only with the exception of less than 20
individual dealers, fakes, including in my opinion poor quality ones
such as most of these, are much more prevalent in the markets now,
than in 1999. And this with no particular advances in forgery
technology or the sophistication of organised numismatic crime, and
a net increase in the skills against ancient coin fraud available to
the markets, just under utilised.
I base my opinion of decline upon auction catalogues over time,
and dealer price lists, and the number of fakes I see in my opinion
in US coin shops sold to them by "reputable" ANA members. Of course
rivers of fakes have also appeared in this time frame on the
internet, especially as offered by some of our "favorites" here, a
couple of whom have managed to cling to "good" reputations on the
other large ancient coin boards, even until today. This despite it
is my opinion, even the actual top experts in the provincial ancient
coin markets, understand their offers are heavily contamianted with
fakes (whatever spin they present to make it seem otherwise, or
however ineffective the forgery control they offer as arbitration
is).
That is, the opportunity to buy fakes now, in all markets, is
greatly enhanced over only 5 years ago. Though a small number of
dealers, remain highly reliable, including some not in the IBSCC,
even a few who only sell by internet or eBay. The coin buyer now,
who wanders into any market, without the advice of the CFDL, has
entered into a field of land mines, in which the signs which
say "safe this way", often point directly to the the second lowest
tier of the markets (the places where there may not be so many
obvious fakes, but where many deceptive fakes are offered).
All honest coin dealers, and all coin buyers who are
legitimately concerned about not being cheated, not cheatingt eir
heirs, and not supporting organised crime, should feel a debt of
gratitude to you Cliff. Without your research, made public on the
CFDL without payment and alrgely without thanks, much of my research
could simply be brushed away by the ignorant or criminal, for the
purposes of most coin buyers, in respects to "reputable" markets and
dealers. Some dealers openly or privately say my work is good, but
only in the case of sellers widely recognised to be bad.
Your work Cliff, given selflessly, is of the caliber of the
work of our recently deceased comrade John Piscopo, who moderated
the Ancient Weapons list for me, and had a number of his own lists,
such as the Kushana list. John tirelessly helped other collectors,
and was never intimidated by fraud, no matter how good of a "name"
it carried with it, or how much it threatened law suits etc...
In these times, in ancient coin and antiquity markets, if no
collectors rise to the challenge agaisnt fraud, with time, there can
be only one result. The eventual full decline of the markets, and
organised rpesence so powerful, very few dealers indeed, will be
able to publicly stand up against fraud, and remain in business
other than in isolated shops and well entrenched secretive dealer
organisations, who do not fight fraud publicly.
Dealers make money on sales, whether the items are fake or not.
Maybe some collectors, can feel reassured about owning fakes, by the
false notion that forgery control will not advance, under pressures
from organised crime, as applied to the markets, and their fakes
will in teh future be accepted back into these markets. Science is
advancing so rapidly now, and technology, I doubt very seriously
organised crime, or their supporters, can put the freeze on fakes,
and make them acceptable in many cases to future markets. There will
always be at least a few dealers, collectors, and pure academics,
who are advancing forensic science in antiquity and ancient coin
markets, and publishing their advances on paper and on the net.
These brave souls (and it does take some bravery, as every dealer
who has actually done it knows all too well, and most collectors who
have actually done it report they have been under pressures as
well), are all that holds back chaos and destruction from the
markets, and keeps at least the rpetense up that the markets are not
simply a well oiled circus of fraud and guess which is fake, and
which is authentic.
You can lock up criminals, or execute them, from now until
dooms day, a new unlimited supply will always be dredged up from the
sewers and whore houses of the World, to replace any losses.
Dealers, collectors, police, and pure academics, who make serious
well informed stands against fraud in ancient coin and antiquities
markets, are a rare and precious commodity, not easily replaced,
though each of them, is easily worth 10 well concealed "master"
criminals in the markets. If each of us in this struggle finds at
least one person to carry on our struggle after we are gone, then
not only have we performed a service in life, we have left a living
legacy as well. Past reforms had great power, and were often led by
only a few, even one person. Once the markets became relatively
clean, they all died off. I fully expect the markets will become
relatively clean again, at least the ancient coin markets. I hope
that the internet, and the new literature, will permit us, unlike
past reform movements, to survive through the ages, just as the
culture of organised fraud in the markets survives, and is
continuous and unbroken largely through the decades and centuries.
Without history, we would not even know of past great struggles
against fraud, some ending in victory, such as agaisnt the
Costolodoulous (sp?) gang, others winning many victories, but ending
in defeat, such as the struggles of the IBSCC BOC staff agaisnt
fraud. The last ending only in 1999, and without the BOC's, we would
only know about 20% of what we know about these great struggles, and
the activities of these organised heros against fraud. Some of whom
have appeared even on the CFDL, such as Paul of Galata coins. Paul,
who was the only reputable dealer, other than myself, who warned us
here in my opinion, that the offers of pagane might be heavily
contaminated with deceptive fakes. Writing that he did not have the
time to do such extensive die studies, to prove it. Our enemies, and
their supporters and smalla rmy of distributors, can create much
smoke, dust, and confusion, to hide the truth. Little can be hidden
for long, from the searching eye of science, and the light of truth.
Organsied fraud can shake off your findings Cliff, and rpetend
they are nothing. And over 80% of the buyers of such coins will not
have any protection from your work. But think of the scales of
justice, being tipped one way by crime, the other way by the forces
of justice. If they are tipped too far one way, a harsh police
state, too far the other way, markets dominated by criminals. Now,
in the ancient coin markets, the balance is delicate, and the danger
is very real, that crime could come to dominate, as it has already,
in the antiquity markets. Even one hand such as yours Cliff, can
potentially give the small pressure needed, to keep organised crime
from smashing the gates in, and pouring through.
This is no small stone you just dropped in the pool of public
opinions in the market Cliff. Though those dealing in fake coins you
expose may pretend otherwise, the ripples of your stones you drop,
are felt around the World, in the ancient coin markets.
Nor could I replace your work Cliff, by my own. I credited
you in my book Cliff, for your research, because it has been vital,
to our progress on the CFDL, in forgery control / fraud supression,
in respects to "reputable" markets and dealers. In science and
technology, there has been a trend towards multidisciplinary teams.
This gives the benefits of multiple perspectives, specialisation,
and peer feedback before publication. Though some may doubt it,
including our rivals, I am confident, the CFDL could go on without
me, as a strong and well integrated fraud fighting group now, this
makes my rest easier. I have my doubts, the IBSCC, has fully
recovered yet, from the loss of the BOC's and their staff, in its
ability to supress fraud. That is, I think the IBSCC is now
diminished compared to say 1985, though still number one. The CFDL
now, in ancient coin fraud supression, is obviously second to none,
except the IBSCC. At the same time, we are lucky, to have two
powerful and publicly active allies, the Prokopov anti forgery club,
and MvR.
Best Wishes,
Alan Van Arsdale
ну, пусть так. Не стану больше спорить.
